Bible Reading Matthew Chapter 5:13-20

On this Episode we Read Matthew Chapter 5 verses 13-20 talking about salt of the earth and light of the world. Also, we get into talking about Righteous anger.

Watch the rest of the podcasts here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL754DzoJAhR1PYDxeKHhtjPlIAcgY1Ph4

Prefer Audio? Listen to the podcast on Buzzsprout: https://faithfictionandfolklorepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Buy The Familiar at either: https://www.garypaulvarner.org/thefamiliar
or
https://www.amazon.com/Familiar-Annals-S-L-M-Covenant-ebook/dp/B0GCN7RJH8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=11F9C7QFPE48U&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7ovYtI0MudmwDoqiOfVOnpK8rnA6zHMl75v8WhGvzn_5I5eiCiWG7SjvBvWHSv8pjdtqgklNWdhm73vUrIsHThX9YTexghBkMdPc4KVTujL2EGDEzFNlRlBBebhEqXxAG-vge4EqFR5KJ7_ovyFVajoVEJmuFezySM6WGrwU9Ea6bR_GjjXXI6VeOEviOw2gp3ff-LeYqNr5l7SThXcp5OigKCQSXoPErc6Qm6Jm6l4.D82yci1ANx_SYwmr3foeijOXUwpG6KmYItn5qxK4BvQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=The+Familiar&qid=1769948107&sprefix=the+familiar%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-4

Follow Faith, Fiction, and Folklore  
X: https://x.com/TryFpodcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566830107763
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tryfpodcast/
Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/TryFPodcast

You can also read Gary Paul Varner's sci-fi reviews:

 https://www.garypaulvarner.com/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=substack_profile

Thanks for watching!

#matthew #biblereading #faith #folklore #fiction

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Welcome to Bay Fiction and Folklore or the Tri-A podcast, where we try really hard not to epit up. And uh this time on this podcast, we are reading Matthew uh starting at five, because we did four last week. How are you guys doing, Gary and Goody?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

I'm here, man. I'm here. Gary's here.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

I'm also here.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Sweet. Let's adhere to the word. Oh yeah. Just you want to read or you want me to read it?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

I can jump in. What are we at?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

We're on. Let's see. We had done peacemakers. We'd had a big conversation about peacemakers last week. So that would be. Oh, and then we use a beatitude. Yeah, and then we finished the person the two persecuted uh passages.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

So I believe We got to verse 12.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yes, we got to 12. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Read or 12.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So you are reading 13, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Five and thirteen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Oh my god. Uh ye are the salt of the earth. But if the salt have what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

What does salt mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:31

What what do you mean? Like when it says ye are the salt of the earth.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Ye are the salt of the earth, but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and to be trodden underfoot of men. So what do you think that means, Trevor?

SPEAKER_04 1:55

I I don't know. I don't know what it means. That's why I asked.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I think the easiest way to explain this is to say the word groupthink.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

When you hang on a minute, I'm gonna uh buzz out here for a second, but I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Alright, uh when you when you uh subject yourself to the world and you say, I'm I'm this, I'm this, I'm part of this group, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Your camera zoomed way in on you.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Oh, sorry, it has that auto-zoom stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Um autofocus. So whenever you you're part of a group and you're like not thinking for yourself like Democrat Republican kind of thing, you're you're not salty anymore. You are the same as everybody else. You've lost your your flavor, right? And so where can you be salted again through God? So when you take away that outside stimulus, you get rid of those outside inputs, right? It's input-output. When you get rid of that outside input, your your saltiness comes from within, it comes from with God. And so where can you be salted again through God? That makes sense. So when you take away that outside stimulus, you get rid of uh let's go to 14. Ye are the light of the world. A city is set on a hill within, it's cannot be hid.

unknown 3:20

So you can be salted again.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Light of the world. I kind of feel like that means the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Yeah, it's it's it sounds like the same thing, just different. An analogy, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yeah, yeah. So it's like uh cannot be hit. Ye are the light of the world. But when you let other people dim your light, I mean you know what that means. When you let other people dim your light, you're hid it under a bushel now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

We should sing that song.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

I don't know that song. Oh, this little light of mine?

SPEAKER_04 3:56

This little light of mine.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Man, it's been a minute since I heard that song.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

I'm gonna let it shine.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

I feel like the last time I heard that song was like at church at grandma's in Missouri. It's been a long time.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Yeah, it has been a long time. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Uh alright, 15. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick, and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

That would be that would make a really good sermon. I don't know. This is just a random thought I had. And you shut off the whole sanctuary. And then you have just a box of like flashlights, and you read this passage, and then you flip on one big switch there on the stage, and it's like, that's God's light. And then you have a box full of like flashlights, and you show the people you are the light of the world. So who wants his light? Because he shares it with you. And you just start passing out flashlights.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Alright. Hello again.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

You're back. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yes, we've got a very loud echo on the stream. So somebody needs to uh put on their headphones. I think. I think I don't have any. You don't have any?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

What's not using my phone, dude? Who's echoing? It's gotta be me.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah. It's probably you. Um, let me think.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Because I'm not hearing anything. You're not hearing anything. I don't hear an echo. I don't mind. On the live stream?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, on the live stream. I was check one of the things I was doing is checking the live stream. So uh I'm getting it.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

You had the You had the echo early on.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Let me check it again. I'll be right back. You guys keep going. Hello, Calix. It's good to see ya. Caly says, what? And I just got back, and then Calix says he doesn't hear an echo. So maybe it's just my phone. Maybe it's just me. So let me check again really quick.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

All right.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

We'll move to 16. Uh let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven. Man, this is a big verse. Because it talks about doing works.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Yeah, there's a lot of uh really quick back and forth between. You know, do you do works for the father? Do you do works for yourself?

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Man, it's so hard to do good things, like truly good things, and not let your ego take the credit for it. It's so difficult.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, there's a lot of uh it's so hard. Um between yeah, and glorify your father, which is in heaven. Like every time you do something good, you give the credit to God, no matter what. No matter what, and it it feels uncomfortable to most people. Yeah, they don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Yeah, I've tried it a couple times, and it's like this feels weird.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Because I don't know, I don't know who the people that you're saying it to, I mean, like it freaks them out. They're like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

They're like, you did such a great job, and you're like, oh no, it wasn't me, it was God. And they're like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Okay. You're weird.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Trevor, are you listening to the the podcast as well, off and on?

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Yeah, I've been turning it like when you guys talk, I'll be listening to YouTube for as long as I can.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

That's what's doing it. It's picking up on your microphone.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

So you'll have to through my headset.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Or your microphone, one of the two. So whenever you listen to it, you're gonna have to mute your mic or your headset. Oh my bad. No, you're good, man. That was what was doing it. Okay, I think we gotta figure out.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

That's why I couldn't hear the echo, is because I wasn't talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

It was you. And then Calix says I like this comment before. What is Gary doing now? Now there's an echo.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

It was me. Let me just try that.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Try what? Now there should be an echo. Alright. Oh. And now it's off. Cool. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

It's funny. Alright, so I'm sorry, where are we at, verse wise?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

17. 17, alright.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Uh think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I'm come. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill with one L. Just old spelled.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Old spelling, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Uh yeah, fulfill means complete.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Mm-hmm. Christ came to complete the law and the prophets, not destroy it.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Yeah, I think we all know that. So it makes me wonder why people would still want to try to do it better than him. Weird.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, yeah. It's almost like it's almost like they want to be God or something.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

So well a lot of them argue, a lot of people argue when Jesus went to leave, he said, You will do these things and greater.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

So they take that a little too far and try and do it.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Well, these things that he's talking about isn't the law. These things is like healings and miracles.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Healings, casting out demons.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, the stuff that Christ is referring to at the end is like miracles and the times for growth of the church. Yeah. Um. Yep. Yep. So Christ came to complete the law, not get rid of it.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

So. Or replace it. The next verse has the word fulfilled in it too, but it has two elves.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I'm not going to pretend to understand the spelling rules of the of 400 years ago or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Pretty interesting. Uh 1888, I think, was when this was canonized, but I don't know. 1888?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

No, no, no. It's way older than that. So canonized?

SPEAKER_03 10:45

The 66 books?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, yeah. Like they were canonized long time ago. What does that mean, canonized? Like considered the official part of the official part of the Bible, yeah. No, I believe uh depending on who you listen to, like the Council in ICEA is when everything got canonized. It's just people have argued back and forth about the Apocrypha.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

That's what it was. It was six. I got the numbers wrong. 1666.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, I think just Google it. I think you're right, but let me just Google it to be sure really quick.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

That's a lot of sixes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Illuminati converts.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

The uh KJV.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Uh written. You got the 1611 KJV, and then you got I think the 1604.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

So you were close, but 1604. So it's been around for a while.

unknown 11:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

I think the internet changes constantly, dude.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

No, no, that's that's I knew it was the 1600s, so I knew you were right. I didn't know it was 1604, but yeah. Because the King James the King James Bible, like, it started the Enlightenment and it kind of killed the theocratic monarchy. Because Protestants all of a sudden had access to the Bible in English. Because you had the Gutenberg and you had other versions before, but this was like the most popular and main English translation, and people started studying it for themselves, and it kind of yeah, it destroyed the legitimacy of the theocratic monarchy because you read the Bible, it's like there ain't nothing about kings being depointed by God in here. I mean, if they did it for David, but that doesn't mean you get to, you know. And so, and that's why there's like all this that's why the guys back in the 1800s wanted to get rid of the KGV too, because they saw they went from like, okay, there's no such thing as divine authority to like there's no such thing as God. And so they wanted to make the Bible seem inconsistent, or they wanted to get rid of the idea of soloscriptura, and the whole point was just to undermine religion and God, because undermining God was the same as undermining the king in in Europe. Now, Protestants, they read the Bible, they thought the Bible was inerrant, they thought the Bible had solo script, they believed in sola scriptura, and so we uh we had this idea of codifying things into law, and the law is meant to reflect the principles of God. This is kind of like the basis for an inalienable right. You know, like the Ten Commandments, if you invert them, are actually the rights of men because they're reflections of the principles of God, they're reflections of how uh yeah, what God has made men for and what God has meant men to enjoy. Like, you know, but the these uh these ab like the law is meant to describe and codify God's principles and his ideals. So we have a very different enlightenment tradition than Europe. Europe didn't have that. Europe had the will of the king as the will of God, and so it's a whole can of worms, but anyway. So yes, but the 1604 makes sense because the King James helped kick off a lot of the reformations and changes in uh government, let's say.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

So I just felt like I remembered hearing it was like a it was a weird number, like 1666 or something. What was in 1888? There was something happened.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Probably Westcott and Hort, who are Satan.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

That may be it.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah, let me let me look that up. Uh let me see if that because you're probably because I've ranted about Westcott and Hort before. I think that might be what you're talking about. When did the revised standard edition of the Bible come out? No, that ain't it.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, I don't know. I'm an idiot. I could just say things sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

When did Westcott and Hortz? If it's not the revised standard edition, what it's called, what's the Westcott and Hortz New Testament come out? 1881. Westgotten Hortz Creek New Testament came out in 1881.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Remember there's a lot of sketchy stuff that happened in 1880.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Nothing good came out of the 1800s. All the dinosaur crap, all of it.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

It's all bullshit. Yeah, so uh all right, we're gonna go to 18.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

18, okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Um, it's kind of a continuation, so I'm gonna reread 17.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

All right.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I'm not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

This is one of the defenses for sola scriptura, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Yeah, for sure. Uh whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. So he's talking about himself.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Okay, let me look at this a little closely. I apologize, I spaced out for a minute. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these command one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But whosoever whosoever shall do and teach them the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

So don't teach children evil shit, or you're going to not have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Well, this is also one of the verses that suggests a pecking order in heaven. Heaven is not a place of equity. You know, we I've maintained once saved, always saved, and that is to say, your works don't get you into heaven, but your works do determine your role in heaven, your ranking in heaven. This would be one of the verses that suggests that.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

So for I say unto you that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. I say unto you that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. So we just have to be better than Pharisees? Is that what it's saying?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Well, you gotta remember that they perceive the Pharisees to be the pinnacle of righteousness. And so it's like, unless you are the best of the best of the best, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Oh now, this is laying the groundwork for salvation.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

No, this is a psychological thing. Because when you compare yourself to people, you you go down.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, he's telling people they're all a bunch of vile degenerates and none of them are going to get righteousness. Yeah, you can't fulfill the law. No, that's what he's getting at. So yes, you are right. It is a psychological thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

So when people say they have righteous anger, it's like no.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

That's bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

So explain, Gary, can you explain? You look like you want to say something. Can you explain righteous anger to me?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Anger over a just cause. Like if somebody's beating the crap out of an old lady and you get angry and indignant for the sake of that old lady, and then beat the crap out of the old the man beating the lady, then that's righteous anger.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Why don't you just stop him and not get angry?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Because you feel empathy for another human being, and that empathy causes you to get angry and want to defend them.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

But Jesus would feel empathy for both people.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

That's probably true, but he would probably still beat the crap out of the guy and save the old lady.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

He would stop him. Probably have a conversation with him.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

You can't nicely stop people when they're that violent. They'd be like, dude, get off me. I'm gonna teach this lady what for. And he's gonna have to put them down. He's gonna have to put them out.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

But people who but people who beat people with anger, that's not good. Those people go to jail.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Disagree with on this point. Yeah, I don't think that's right. I think that every emotion, everything has a purpose and a right way it's supposed to be used. And the wrong way is supposed to be used. Nothing is inherently evil for its own sake, or in and of itself. There is a right way to use anger and a wrong way to use anger. Same thing for happiness, joy, and everything else.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

A person who is defending someone is not gonna beat that that other person to a bloody pulp. A person who's angry is going to beat that person to a bloody pulp.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yes, and that's not okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yes, they should.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

You stop them. You stop. It's not your job to fix everybody. You stop what they're doing and you let God handle the rest.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Well, you may also make sure they can't do it again because if you don't do a thorough job.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

No, no, that's your will. That's not God's will. Yeah, it's God's will.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Well, you yes, of course it is. You can't just allow people to do evil again.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

You're like, oh, well, I'll just I'll break his legs and one vertebrae, because that's probably God's will.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Calyx says, the only time I'm angry is when I'm honest, lol. That's kind of how I feel sometimes. I'm like, I never let my true self out because I'm very angry. So um, I'll give you an example. Like, once upon a time, there was a kid bullying my little brother on the bus. Right. Now, me being a child and recognizing the need to defend my little brother, I got up and I didn't beat the kid to a pulp, but I screamed in his face and you know made a big scene in front of everybody, and I did it because I was angry. My anger fueled my resolve to fix the problem and sent that kid a very clear message, don't mess with my little brother. And that guy never messed with my little brother again. So, in fact, they were almost kind of tiptoed around me every time they saw me looking at them when they were talking to my brother. So they had fear of you? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

So you think do you think they would have fear of Jesus if he fixed the situation?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Really? Mm-hmm. You don't think they would be comfortable in talking to him?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Well, think about the end times. When Jesus comes back, there's going to be weeping and wailing. People are going to realize they were wrong.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Right, right. But you said you corrected him righteously, so he was like.

unknown 21:50

Right?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Righteous is not the same thing as positive human emotion, though. Righteousness is right and wrong. Doesn't mean you know you have a cathartic experience. It means you fix a problem.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Um weird noise. Um I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Well, a second ago it sounded like when you said righteousness you were meaning like positive emotions in some capacity. And I was like, no, you can still have somebody scared or upset and some you can still leave somebody scared and upset, but still do the right thing. Like it's not contingent on feelings.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

I think a righteous correction would be a correct or a complete correction. Um you wouldn't they wouldn't feel guilt after the the correction. They would be like, Yes, I understand what I did wrong and how I need to change it. There's no guilt in that. Guilt comes when you have you don't understand what you did wrong. You can't fully understand it.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

I I don't know if I agree with that, but I do feel like guilt is uh amoral. Like there's gonna be times it's appropriate and times it's not appropriate, and the whole thing is though, whatever you're feeling, it needs to be geared, it needs to be motivating you to change.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yes. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Um I don't know what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

That's alright.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Uh oh. Righteous, righteous like a righteous correction I think I already said it. I don't know. I don't feel like somebody would be scared of Jesus after he corrected them.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Not always, but there are gonna be times where he needs to double down somebody, and then there's gonna be times where he's gonna be gentle. Like he again, yelling at the priests and calling them names versus, you know, picking the picking up the prostitute or protecting the prostitute and saying go in and go and sin no more. Like the way he dealt with situations, like it just it depended on the circumstances, it depended on who he was talking to. He I you are right that his motivation was always to prevent prompt a change, but he took different approaches. So sometimes anger is appropriate, sometimes it's not.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

What the what the heart of the person looked like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Um I don't know. That's such a difficult conversation, righteous anger thing. Man, if your heart's beating fast, you can't you can't make a good, rational decision, I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, but sometimes the Almighty uses that passion. This kind of gets into providence. Sometimes you're supposed to react in a certain fashion, and the Almighty uses that to accomplish his own ends. That's not gonna happen every time, but you know, there are instances where you know that that might be what's required.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Yeah. It would be, yeah. I guess he would be using so like God could use an emotionally reactive person, but they would grow from that experience and not they would be less emotionally reactive after that.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I mean, possibly if they don't, you know, if they don't need to be emotionally reactive, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Because I just like like I I just don't think that like Jesus is the standard, like not the standard, like the goal, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

We all we all want to reach that level of of adeptness and so I forgot I was gonna say, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Oh, that's alright. Calic says, the only time I'm angry is when I have to use facts and logic against someone acting stupid. Yeah, normally because they don't listen. I hear you. So our fight or flight response. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Our fight or freeze response. I don't think you can make a rational decision with that. Maybe God can use whatever outcome happens.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Well, what if what if an emotion sharpens you? Like maybe some people may maybe it maybe what we're describing is uh I don't know. I'm just throwing a hypothetical. Maybe what we're describing is uh a moral deduction based on our own experience. Maybe we get chaotic whenever we're emotional, but maybe if somebody gets angry, they get really clear. Now, if somebody gets really clear when they're angry, should they be angry and so they can reach that clarity to fix a problem?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Say the last part again?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

What if somebody needs to be angry so they can gain the clarity to fix a problem?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Who do you know that gets more clear when they get angry?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

I don't know anybody off the top of my head, but I'm not gonna sit there and say it's impossible.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

That sounds like crazy talk.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Getting c clear whenever you're angry?

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I don't know, man. I'll I'll say this. There have been times and I've been getting angry, and it's kind of motivated me to get shoot super sharp and focused.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Yeah, but you have to stop being angry to do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

I bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

No, you don't. Uh yeah, it's absolutely possible.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

If your heart's racing, you can't be sharp and focused.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Okay, well, what about getting angry and working out harder?

SPEAKER_03 27:25

That's I think it's demonic.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

That's not demonic. That's accomplishing the goal. Yeah, I've done it too. I've done it too, and it gets a lot of stress out. It didn't create an ego for me. Well, maybe I mean I'm arrogant for completely unrelated reasons, but it didn't. That aspect wasn't arrogant.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Uh yeah, I don't know, man. I I don't anger hardens your heart. The more your heart races and pumps, just the more it does that, the harder it gets. Because like a muscle, right? Yeah, the more you work that muscle out, the harder it gets.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, your heart is the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Between being like strong and becoming stone, like you're talking about being brittle.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

No, no, there's not. Like, dude, when you pay attention to muscles, like different people's muscles. Like, I have a friend that's younger than me. Yeah, he can't he can't curl as much as me, but he has way bigger biceps. Yeah, it's because my my muscles are harder, they're denser. Like a heart. A heart can do that too.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I don't think that's a bad thing. Your body's designed to work that way.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

No, because your heart's a pump. It collapses in on itself.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Stronger. Like making it harder and more dense would make it more durable. Then why does Jesus talk about hard hearts being bad? Because it's a refer, it's stone. It's numbing out. It's numbing out. It's literally not feeling anything at all, being cold, not reacting to other people.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

I think you're wrong. Those bodybuilders, like if you pay attention to bodybuilding, like the golden era bodybuilders are old and stuff, like they all have heart issues. Yeah, well, that's because that's from steroids, but they were abusing their muscle growth.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

It's not uh yeah, the steroids are the problem, dude. I it's it's unearned muscle, it's unearned results, and it's like pushing past what your body is designed to do because people do the same thing with bulls. Like, if you have a breeding bull that's like all muscular or whatever, that thing's gonna die before all the other animals because it's a genetic mutation, it's a freak, and it's not going to survive as long as the ones that have reached the mean.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

It's a vague answer. It's because it's hard, it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

It's hard as a butt it's that's rooted in hormones and like not it's not connected to emotion and anger and all the other stuff. That stuff might be an outcropping of hormones that are already present, but the problem is you're you're injecting synthetic hormones into the body and it's destroying everything. And basically, the anger is a consequence of that, the swollen heart is a consequence of that, but you get really pretty cows. So yeah, but that's why those steroid guys die so early, is because they're pumping themselves a bull hormone. And therefore they look like bulls.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

It's not bull hormone.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

It there are literally instances where they were using, at least at one point in time, they were using like human cow growth hormone. So the same crap my dad would use uh as the 90s. I don't know how long it went, but the same crap yeah, it's like the same crap that my dad was using for cows. Okay, I can see that. They were using they were using for the bodybuilders.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

In I think it was '92 Biden actually made steroids, like designer steroids, like a lot of them that people were using illegal. Um like he's the one that did it, Biden didn't senator. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Huh. You'd think he would have been more buffed then, but anyway. Um hang on just a sec. Calic says you can look at a picture of a tiger showing its teeth, and it can trigger your fight or flight response. Yes, and it would be a good idea to run from the tiger. You don't need a lot of deduction on that score. Reaction would be preferable in that situation, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Or freeze.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Well, if you freeze, you're dead.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

If you're running away from a tiger, you're also dead.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Not if you find a tree first.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Tigers can't climb trees?

SPEAKER_00 31:35

And not if I run faster than you.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

They can do 50. You're crazy. No, dude, hard parts are bad for you. They're not good.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I'm still everything has a mean. Everything has a mean, it has a range it's supposed to exist in. It is not a fair analogy to say elevated. It is not a fair analogy to say anger. It is not a fair analogy to say anger is bad in every circumstance by comparing bodybuilders who injected like 30 cc's or whatever it is of uh you know, testosterone and cow hormone. Like that's not equivalent. That's not equivalent because they're literally pumping themselves up with a bunch of hormones and it's just examples.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

See the picture.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

But they're not parallel. Your example is not parallel of what you're talking about. I'm saying you can use anger to motivate you into an action, and therefore, anger is not always morally bad. That's my claim. You're saying uh-uh, because if you inject yourself with a bunch of hormones, your heart's gonna explode in your chest, and therefore anger is bad. And I'm like, those have nothing to do with each other.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Your heart wears out before the rest of your body does.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yes, because you've pumped a bunch of crap in your chest.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

It's gonna be if you do the same thing with like you could do that with anger. You could go to the gym every day and get angry as fuck and just work out super hard and work your heart too much. Like you can literally do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

But that's why demonic calling back to a meme or a mean. A mean is like a middle ground. Like there's a time to like. No, no, Ecclesi Ecclesiastes says there's a season for everything under the sun. I guess we're calling back to Ecclesiastes then.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

You just said middle path.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah, we could say middle path. I think that's fine. But anger, there is a time for love, and there is a time for hate, there is a time to reap, there is a time to sow, there is a time for war, there is a time for peace. That's Ecclesiastes. Things have seasons, and you have to be cognizant of the season or the situation you are in, and you have to evaluate what the right response is. Sometimes anger is going to be appropriate, sometimes not.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

There's not one time in my entire life that anger has helped me.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

It's helped me. I mean, it's but we're just appealing to anecdote. So I mean, it's helped me, but I don't know. Maybe it hasn't helped you. Trevor, has it helped you? Anger? Yes, the dark side. Um I'm kidding. Anger.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

I don't know. I I just keep wanting to ask you all the question about uh when the Hulk said um that he's always angry. Does that make him right or wrong? Well he he had it figured out. You know, he he's people would ask him, you know, how do you how do you keep it in check because he figured out how to keep it in check and he was like that mic drop part where he punches the big alien. He's like, I'm always angry.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

It's a great superhero line, but it's kind of funny when you stop and think about it, because it's I just picture him like screaming at his mother in his head all the time, you know? Like just like this really petty, bitter person just walking around mumbling all the time.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

So yeah. Yeah, I just don't think it's good to be there at all. I mean, I don't it's whatever.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Alright, well, okay, if it's wrong to be angry, anger isn't saying it's wrong. Then what are you saying? Because I've been sitting here thinking you're talking about being mad about I was saying It's not conducive to the will of the Father.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

What does that mean? Anger cannot help you achieve what God wants you to achieve.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Okay, so are you saying it's unproductive? Yes. Then why did Christ get angry?

SPEAKER_03 35:46

I don't think he wanted to get angry. I think he he calmed himself before he went, you know, before he went and flipped the tables. I don't think he did that with his heart racing. I think he had a calm, calculated plan and he wanted to get rid of all the animal sacrifice in his father's house.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Is it a sin to make other people angry?

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

If it's a sin to make other people angry, then why did Jesus call the uh Gentile woman a dog?

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Yeah, because sometimes uh if you What?

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, there's a story in the Gospels where Christ says the I don't remember the exact terminology, the food for Israel or the gift of Israel is not meant for the dogs. He says that to uh I think a Samaritan woman. Huh?

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Even the dogs eat the the crumbs.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

And then she responds, even the dogs eat the scraps from the table.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

So she she accepted what he said. He wasn't angry.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah, but he could have made her angry. I mean, if I got called a dog, I'd have been angry. But she knew what she was. He knew her heart. If it's a sin to make somebody angry, then why did Christ risk making her angry by literally calling her a name?

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Christ knew her heart.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Okay, we could make that argument. Well, then why did he make the Pharisees angry?

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Because they're demons.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

So it's okay to make so it's okay to make bad people who we equivocate with demons angry.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

No, we don't equivocate the people to demons. The demons are inside the people. We're making the demons angry so they come out, we can get them out.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Well, I don't think every Pharisee was literally possessed.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

You don't think though? I think we're all possessed. Every single person.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Okay, based on what?

SPEAKER_04 37:29

We need to call Bar Bob Larson through this.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Based on what?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Why do you think that everybody in the world is possessed? You're you're basically describing the fallen nature, but calling it demons instead.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah, it's what Jesus said. Our thoughts are not our own.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

I don't think he said that.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

We battled not against uh flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers of that's Paul, your favorite author. Okay, cool. We're not we're not fighting actual people anymore. That was old testament shit. Now we're fighting parasites that affect thoughts in our head.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Well, I wouldn't make a delineation between the Old Testament and the New Testament, first of all, but a what? A delineation, like I wouldn't separate old and new, like they're different and have different rule sets, like they're absolutely like what?

SPEAKER_03 38:19

It's the physical law versus the spiritual law.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

No, I don't think that's what the Old Testament and the New Testament are getting at.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

So you think you're supposed to follow the law?

SPEAKER_00 38:29

No, I think the law has been completed. The Levitical law has been completed. That's what we're getting. It gets us back to Matthew 5. Okay, when Christ, when Christ died on the cross, he finished the sacrificial system and he paid for all the sins because it was evident by that point, and it was supposed to be evident all along, that the Levitical law didn't work. Like it was insufficient. Men couldn't follow it because man can't follow God's rules in any circumstance. So when he died and paid for everyone's sins, sin is no longer on the board, and the Levitical law has been completed because Christ was the final sacrifice. And uh that's what he meant. He meant that he was since he was the law's purpose, as Paul explains it, is to reveal how flawed and awful we are, and to show that we can't make it. And once we understand that, then we understand why Christ died on the cross for sin, for every man's sin, every sin that ever was, and every sin that ever will be. He did that because the law is impossible to fulfill. And a lot of what I think Christ is doing, like when we get to committing adultery in your heart and being angry at your brother without a cause, when we get to that section in five, I think what he's talking about is he's taking it and he's saying, okay, you understand this from the context of the Levitical law, but even more broadly, even ethically, you can't hold this standard because who hasn't been angry at a brother without a cause? Who hasn't looked at a woman of lust? Everybody sins, everybody breaks the law. The law is impossible to fulfill. That's why I paid for all of it. So I completely went on a tangent and I don't remember what my original point was.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

But you're saying you're saying the Old Testament and the New Testament there's not a delineation.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Um is building on top of the other. Think of it like a cumulative case.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah, but I think people's like when when Jesus says Moses wrote you this law because your hearts were hard, Jesus gave us the ability to have soft hearts. He gave us that. Like forgiveness, he gave us forgiveness. Okay, so um there it's like the Old Testament went from a physical realm where you had to pay for your sins with animal sacrifice or whatever. Like that's a physical everything you do is in reality. Whereas now we're allowed to be spiritually forgiven, and we don't like our um I don't remember what I was trying to say. Oh like there's definitely there's definitely like it's it's black and white, man. Um he definitely changed some things. I don't know why you're saying he didn't.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

He did change things, so what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Well, you said there's not a delineation between the old and new testament, like it went from physical to spiritual, like it went from the letter of the law to the spirit of the law.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Well, delineation suggests, or at least the way I felt what you were saying was earlier. I felt you were saying that there's like a split between the old and the new. And I'm going, no, there's not a split between those two. It's it's a cumulative case. It's and then because of like there's the New Testament is a transition from the Old Testament, but that doesn't mean they're unconnected, and that doesn't mean the Old Testament is irrelevant. Like, again, it's it's like a lawyer making a case study, or like a judge writing um like a refutation of a role.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

No, the Old Testament is case law.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, yeah, but the whole thing's case law. Like, it's one logical through line. I um you don't think Jesus brings in a lot a little bit of in other words, nothing in the Old Testament has been undermined or made irrelevant by Christ.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Animal sacrifice?

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Because that was a shadow of what Christ was going to do all along. Yeah, but he said, Okay, okay, fair enough, fair enough. We don't do animal sacrifices anymore. But why?

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Because that was a physical way to pay for your sins and he gave us forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

It was never doing anything at all. Like, that's the whole point of Genesis 1. Genesis 1 is the first prophecy of the Messiah. Now, this is the way I was taught. This might be more dispensationalist, I think that's the right term. But the way I was taught how this works is that Christ, like everybody from the beginning knew that God was going to pay for sin or there was going to be a redeemer at some point. That's the point or the purpose behind Genesis 3 when God makes that prophecy about the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent. Because immediately, because remember, what predates what what predates that? Adam and Eve get physical skin, like animal skins, meaning that something had to die for their sin, for their initial sin. And after they receive that skin, then the prophecy of the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent comes into play. That's all part of the same story. So that's the first Bessianic prophecy, right? And then Cain and Amal come in, and you see prophecy. Um sacrifices is normal. And then that gets systematized in Levitical law. And then after so long of it getting systematized, then God, through the major prophets, says, I don't care about sacrifice. I care about obedience because they're missing the point. And then all of that leads up to Christ being the final sacrifice. But the point is, the Messiah, the Jews, maybe a reductive or simplistic way might be to say that the Jews believed that the Messiah was going to come and save them from their sins. And we believe that the Messiah has already came and paid for our sins. Like that would be the difference. But the Jews were looking forward and we're looking back. That would be the only difference. But it's all leading to the same thing. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 44:51

It does, but I think the Jews are just stuck in uh the physical world. They're like, so like kind of like Judas. Judas thought that Jesus was gonna bring down the kingdom. Like, boom, like he was gonna pop off the cross and just you know pull some magic Jesus stuff. That's why he killed himself after Jesus died. He was like, oh, you're fucked up. So, like, like the Jews are stuck in that state. Like they they the generation always asks for a sign. They want real physical proof that everything's okay. And Jesus is like, everything's okay. And they're like, no, I need proof, right? That's what's going on. They're stuck in reality, they're not in the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Okay, well, that may or may not be, but what does that have to do with uh the relevance of the Old Testament and the New Testament and their relation to each other?

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Um I I don't know the question.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Well, my whole point in bringing all of that up is that as I'm basically saying, the Old Testament and the New Testament are connected. There are a cumulative cases of fru line. You are right to say that, yeah, okay, we don't do animal sacrifices anymore. But the principles of God are still the same, and God was always telling the Jews that he was going to pay for their sins. Like God has not changed, and his rules have not changed. And so therefore, the Old Testament and the New Testament build on top of each other and are linked. And I don't think it's I don't like that we try to split them off. Because some churches go as far as to not preach on the Old Testament at all. I think that's a big mistake, because then you don't understand like the concept of a covenant, which is very important if you're going to understand Christianity and what salvation means. You do need to have an understanding of like covenants and then the difference between the Abrahamic covenant and Levitical covenant. Not that that information is going to save you, but if you want to understand what's happening mechanically, you do need to know those things.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

So if you're autistic, the Old Testament's cool. Yeah, I it's important because I think the Old Testament shows um like clear-cut bad behavior in the physical, and you can really like look at it. Whereas now it's like it's all spiritual, it's all thoughts, it's all like it's you can't see it. It's it's it's hidden. It's for those with eyes to see. It's much more nuanced.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Well, I think we have covered 10 verses, maybe. Okay.

unknown 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Oh, but we're about 45 minutes in, so we need to move on. Uh we started at 13. Let me find out where we were. So we weren't on 21. Okay, I think we stopped at uh we stopped at 21. Yeah, it was 21. So we had we read a whopping seven verses in 45 minutes. Wow. We are booking.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

Okay, we'll just gospels.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Yes, beatitudes, man.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

So a deep dive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

All right. Well, we're gonna move on. Uh on to the next note.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

We were raiding, we were reading page 933 in my Bible, just so you know. Oh, sweet.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Oh man. Alright. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Faith Fiction and Folklore. If you did, we would love it if you would subscribe to us on YouTube or follow us on Rumble. We can also be found on X, Instagram, and Facebook. And we are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio. Thank you again very much for listening, and we'll see you next time.