Bible Reading Matthew 5:30-48

On this Episode we read Matthew chapter 5 verses 30-48 where Jesus is giving the Sermon on the Mount.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Alright, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Wait. We're still in the Beatitudes?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Yes. We've been on them for quite the while.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

I thought the Beatitudes was just like the first ten verses.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Well, I could be wrong. It could just be the first little bit. I always figured it was like, you know, part of the Sermon on the Mound. It's all part of the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

So the whole chapter, basically.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

We can Google it. We can Google it. Won't take very long. So Google. Alright. Is the Sermon on the Mount. And the Beatitudes. Uh why can't I spell the same thing in Matthew 5? Nope. They are not the same thing. The Beatitudes are the specific opening verses of the Sermon of the Mount. So we're relying on AI here. The Sermon on the Mount. This is the entire three-chapter block of teachings by Jesus found in 5, 6, and 7. It includes teachings on prayer, anger, judging others in the Lord's Prayer. The Beatitudes, this refers specifically to the first 12 verses of chapter 5, Matthew 5, 1 through 12. They are the famous blessings that begin with the phrase, blessed are, and so on. So I need to change some of the thumbnails. So anyway, yes, but okay, so we're not still on the Beatitudes. My mistake, we are still on Matthew 5. There you go. So let me just begin. Matthew 5, verse 30. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee, for it is profitable for thee that one of my members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Have you heard like some pastors or priesters? Like they do a whole sermon on just everything.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

What do they say?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

They just uh they go on an on tangent and talk about you know if if you do right and wrong, and what is right and wrong, what's a sin, what's not a sin, and it's just a whole severing.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I was just asking you if you I mean I've heard I've heard everybody basically say this is like you gotta cut off temptations, is usually the way I've heard it framed, which I don't agree with. I think it's a pruning metaphor. There's something in you that's gotta die to beat the sin, something attached to you, you know, that kind of thing. But people tend to say you gotta avoid temptation, and they use this as a justification for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Which I never bought it, because again, it's a proving pruning metaphor. Um I think hell is being used somewhat hyperbolically, you know, sin will destroy you, you know, you'll be consumed by, you know. I don't think it's saying you've got to do the right thing or you're gonna go to hell. It's saying it's better that one part of you be destroyed, even though it's gonna be painful, than for you to go to hell. You know what I'm saying? It's it's hyperbolic to make the point.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So, like if you have something that you're addicted to, it's better to get rid of that instead of stay addicted to it.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Well, it's saying, I mean, yes, you need to get rid of your habitual sin, but it's also saying that there's a part of you that needs to die to get rid of the sin. I think the I that causes you to stumble, as it were. So it's like, uh, because you know, the verse before it is so you've got the hand, and then before that, you've got the eye, and the verse before that is lust, right? And then it transitions into the eye, and then it transitions into the hand as well. So I think what it's saying is there's a part of you that's got to die to beat the sin. That's just my opinion. It's a pruning metaphor. It's not saying that because what the word is if the right eye to offend thee, and if the right hand offend thee, now the other interpretations say causes you to stumble. Right?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

So that's what the NIV said.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah, the NIV has causes you to stumble, which again, it's the NIV, but uh I think the idea is that if something is causing you to mess up, you know, you need to give that something up because that sin is going to destroy you, right? So I think that's the meaning of the verse. Where I disagree with people is that they they say that the thing that's causing you to stumble is external, like it's I don't know, let's say it's a drug or an alcohol or whatever. You know what I mean? It's it's like they always like put it on the thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Vaping.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Uh yeah, whatever they consider sin. Um and I would disagree with that because I'm like, well, the hand the hand and the eye are connected to you. And so like you drinking too much is the result of something connected to you, not necessarily the alcohol. And so you need to kill a part of yourself, metaphorically speaking, to beat the sin, is what I think it's getting at. There's some there's some part of you that has to die. Again, pruning analogy, because it's better for some part of you to be removed than for your whole soul, as it were, to be destroyed in hell. Does that make sense? That makes sense. So that that's what I think. I just and I yeah, I always get annoyed because it doesn't say drop the hammer that's causing you to stumble, or you know, remove the tool that's causing you to stumble, or anything like that. It's again, it's connected to you, so you have to remove part of yourself. That's the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

So What's the verse where we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but uh princes and principalities?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Well, there's also that verse in Mark 7, uh, nothing outside of a man defiles a man, but what is in a man is is what defiles him.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

So Paul talking about the thorn in his side.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Well, I don't know if that's the same thing, but uh the idea is that sin is like there's a fallen nature and it's internal, it's not in the environment. So, like there's like you know, lust is essentially coveting. Paul compares lust to coveting, right? So lust is ultimately rooted in gratitude for what you have. You want something else. It's it doesn't matter the whether it's stuff or whether it's women or whatever, it's uh that kind of grass is always greener mentality in all circumstances, and so like the core aspect of the fallen nature you might say is covetousness, and that can manifest as lust, that can manifest as envy, that can manifest as different things. And so it could be that this covetous desire is the thing you need to cut off. Maybe if you disagree with that, let me know in the chat. So and don't forget to like, like, share, subscribe, advertise here, insert pitch. So, anyway. So, I mean, what do you think? Am I reachy? Is that fair? Where are you at?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

I think it's here.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Okay, all right, we'll move on.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I would I would agree with you. Okay, makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

All right, well, let us move on to 31 then. It hath been said, whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you that whoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery, and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Wait, so if it let me understand this. So if I divorce my wife, then I am forcing her to commit adultery. Is that what that's saying? If she remarries. If she remarries.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Now, but isn't this interesting? Is that really what it's saying? Or it could be, but I feel like we need to pause here and think it through for a moment. So what's he starting off with? He's starting off with what the letter of the law says, right? So he's starting with it's okay to divorce as long as you give her a piece of paper. That's 31. Right? So if you divorce your wife, provided you follow the protocol, you're good, right? So it's okay to divorce in the law. That's 31. And of course, in the Jewish time, they had, you know, divorce protocol. Yeah, you were allowed to divorce, the man was allowed to divorce the woman under certain conditions. But 32 turns around and says, but, which means it's in contrast to the first clause, I say unto you that whosoever shall put my put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, so unless basically she goes first, like she's messing around first, causeth her to commit adultery. And whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. So spiritually, even though you're legally in the right, you're still committing adultery. Now why do you think he'd say that?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Because it's a spiritual thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Sorry, go on. It's not a uh he's looking at it from a uh from a spiritual aspect instead of just our our typical fleshly aspect.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Now you gotta be careful with spiritualizing stuff because you can dilute things to the point that they don't have any meaning when you do that.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

But I think it's fair, possibly in this case, because you've got the butt. The butt is juxtaposing the legal requirement. And so yeah, I think it's it's basically God hates divorce, and even though you're in the eye you're right in the eyes of the law, uh, you're still breaking a covenant, you're still forcing her to break a covenant, you're forcing the man to break a covenant. So God still hates it, even though it's like legally okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

It's like, I don't understand it. I don't get it. So is it right or wrong to divorce?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I think there are situations like fornication where you are justified, but God still hates divorce because you're breaking a vow. So the original promise. That uh God is meant to be together forever, as it were. And uh just because something is legally okay, that doesn't mean it's spiritually okay. And so in that, and because of that, it's like, you know, even if somebody cheats on you and you you have the right to, you know, even in the eyes of God, you have the right to divorce them. But fundamentally, the problem is that spiritually that covenant's being broken. And that's kind of a a big deal. So I think he's just saying I don't want to say too much and speculate too much because it's kind of a sensitive subject, but it's a very sensitive subject. Yeah. But I think the bottom line is God hates divorce, and just because something's right on a piece of paper, that doesn't mean it's right spiritually. So I think that's kind of the idea. But at the same time, we're gonna read later that God did allow the people of Israel to divorce because their hearts were hard. So what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

It's all about your heart, your heart posture.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Well, why did God allow it? If he doesn't like it, and this indicates that he doesn't like it, why did he allow it later?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

I don't know, I'm not God.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

I'm not either, but it's a fascinating question. So I'm interested in it. Well, I think we can figure it out if we think about it. Study it up a little bit. I think we're supposed to think about it and try to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And he does say thinking on these things, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah. So yeah, but the but I think what's important here also is that you're getting a why, like why it's bad. It's because you're you're basically causing a chain of events that cause like pain and put people in a situation where they might have to sin, you know, or they might end up sinning. You know what I mean? So there's like one of the reasons it's such a big deal is because you're forcing the other person's hand, and there's bad consequences that follow it, and you know, it's just it's a painful, it's a painful thing to do. So you're seeing kind of a principle as to why it's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah. And personally, this is just me. I'm I believe that it could cause like a a pain and suffering, not just for any kids involved, but generations to come. And so on and so forth. And it could it it not only affects just you and your significant other, but everybody in your circle, and it could also affect people that you don't even know about, like cousins, like distant cousins and aunts and uncles and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

There's a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

There's a huge ripple effect, because then, you know, ten years down the road they they find out about it.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

And they're like, why did no one tell me?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

And it causes all sort of problems.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Oh, I completely agree. I completely agree. So yeah, it's uh a difficult question. But the bottom line is even if it's right in the law, God can still hate it. Yeah. And yet, even though he hated it, he allowed it for the people of Israel. So what does that say? I guess the question would be what does that actually say about the nature of the moral law?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

God loves us.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yes, God loves us. He loves us no matter what. But what is God mainly concerned with? Is he concerned with the piece of paper? Because it says he allowed it because their hearts were hard. Like they wouldn't accept it. So he gave them the out. But he he hates it principally. So maybe we can explore it more when we get to that verse. But the juxtaposition between the law and what God expects, I think, is the point here. In the same way, and that's kind of the theme between all of this, is you've got this contrast between what people say to do versus what God is actually looking at. That's the underlying theme for all these verses, is that God is looking a level deeper than just the external. So, all right, we'll move on. 33. Again, you have heard it, you have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Don't break your oath.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

But we got remember, we got a butt, juxtaposition. So clause one, here's clause two. But I say unto you, swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is God's throne, nor by the earth, for it is his footstool, neither by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communications be nay be yea, yea, nay, nay, for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Okay, so we're this is our next clause. So we got our statement on oaths here. So let your yes be yes and your no be no.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

So if I come to an agreement with my significant other, hey, we're gonna stick together forever, don't even make the promise, just do it.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I don't know exactly what it's saying. I I've heard um a preacher say that this was in reference to something that they like to do. They would like to make these grandiose oaths at the time, you know, and he was just saying that's pointless. Just say what you're gonna do, not what you're not, and what you're not gonna do. Just be direct. I do wonder if there's an application here for contract law. Like, is it really necessary to have a bunch of contracts to formalize a deal or is a handshake enough?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

It should be enough. Yeah, it should be enough. I think that's the point. You have evil people that are like, oh, I'm gonna stab them in the back later if you didn't have it in writing.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Right. And they do they do it through minutiae in the writing, you know, fine print.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

And I think this is I think if you're going to take what they were doing back then and apply it principally, it would be something to the effect of don't do fine print, don't do grandiose oaths, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Don't even speak it into existence.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Well, just let your have honor. Have honor. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. And don't try to trick people in deals. Don't try to get the, you know, don't try to get the better of somebody in a deal. Don't try to make grand, you know, declarations about what you're gonna do. Just be direct in your dealings with people. Maybe I'm maybe I'm stretching. I might be stretching, though. I might be taking it too far. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

We could do a stretch if you want.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Well, I mean, what well specifically what I'm asking is is applying this to duplicity and contracts taking it too far? Because I would I would think that the reason that they're making all these grandiose oaths is to make it seem like they're super duper certain, but it's like he doth protest too much, you know, like they secretly kind of don't intend to keep their oath or whatever. Maybe that's what's going on. Maybe it's just that they're super prideful and I'm completely off base. But I I suspect that the uh the declarations in some sense undermine honor. I got what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I think I would just go back to you know heart posture. You you don't know what's under in other people's hearts, so just don't make promises that you know you can't keep them.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yeah, I guess you could do that too. I think that's good. Alright, you ready? Ready to move on for the next one? Oh, yeah. All right. Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you read that. Well, I know, but I shouldn't have read that because I I missed, I I passed over the claim again. Right? No, no, this is this is vengeance. Remove it from the honor clause to the vengeance. My twice. Okay. So yeah, ye have heard no, it's all right. Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you that ye resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Pacifism.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

I don't think it's pacifism, no. I disagree. This is one of those scriptures, though, that everybody uses for pacifism, right? I think that you shouldn't expect a level tit for tat in every circumstance. Um, and you shouldn't be trying to get evil, uh, get even with people for every slight. But I don't think it's pacifism, because like I've said before, you know, you turn the other cheek when someone strikes you, you're a Christian. You turn the other cheek when someone strikes your neighbor, you're a coward.

unknown 21:59

Right?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Because turn the other cheeks got to be balanced with love thy neighbor. Well, you don't want everybody looking away when somebody beats the crap out of you. So why would you look away if you know somebody was beating the crap out of somebody else or your neighbor or whatever? So I don't think it's a decree of pacifism, and that wouldn't make any sense because then why would God command Ehud to assassinate uh I think it was the Midian king?

SPEAKER_00 22:21

You know how would God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Right. Like, so I don't think it's an appeal to pacifism. There's too many, like you have the story of David, you have judges, you have you know the Canaanite conquest.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah, basically the most of the Old Testament is not pacifism.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah, and if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and we believe the Bible is inerrant and consistent, then how could this be an appeal to pacifism? There's got to be something else being said.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Let's read and find out.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Well, I think what I'm saying is like he's he's also he's quoting um Leviticus here, and it's kind of this I you know, in the law, and again, what's the juxtaposition been, what the law is versus what's actually important. And so I think what you're looking at is yes, the law says that everything's gotta be there's gotta be a punishment for every crime. But in our own dealings, we can't we can't get even for every slight. So I think I think what maybe people are missing is the juxtaposition between the law and how you're supposed to deal with people in your own life. And just because the law says that we should be getting even and punishing crimes, that does it doesn't follow that we need to be getting even with people for every wrong. Does that make sense? Right. Or, you know, it's like, well, I'm gonna steal, you you stole five Jolly Ranchers, I'm gonna steal five suckers. You know what I mean? Like it's I don't, yeah. So I think it's talking about letting stuff go on our individual lives, even you know, even though the law you you do require punishment in the law.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

So if someone steals your your let's say your milk money or your lunch money, and what should should you just keep letting them do it?

SPEAKER_02 24:26

No, I think at some point you gotta fight them if they're just gonna keep taking stuff from you, but you're not fighting, you're not fighting them to get even because look, what was it eye for eye and tooth for tooth? You know, you're paying back for a crime. You know, in the law, it you have a sin, and sin leaves a debt, and debt requires a payment. You know what I mean? Yeah. So in your own life, if you're doing that, well, you're you know, if you're thinking that way, you're thinking in terms of vengeance. Now, in the case of the bully, though, you do have to defend yourself. You're not trying to get even with the guy in that circumstance, you're trying to get him to stop taking your lunch money. You know, you're not required to like surrender you know your money all the time because you gotta eat. But you're not fighting the guy because you're mad and you want to get even either. You know what I mean? So the focus isn't getting even, the focus is to accomplish an objective. But in the laws, hmm?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

So I'll take I'll take that question a little further. Okay. What if you know how it says give Caesar into what is Caesar's? Yeah. So what if your government is taxing you so hard, he's then taking your money to eat, and you can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Calyx says no violence, then he's got an X, and then I don't remember what that sign is, but it's like the the Ghostbusters cross out sign. No violence, no violence ever.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

No, never be violent. What's the difference between being violent and self-defense?

SPEAKER_02 26:07

We can have that debate. I would agree with you. Caleb, if you disagree, you can tell us why. Be interesting to hear it. Tell me why. So, yeah. Uh let me think. I I think I'm I think I'm fair though, because like I think I'm being fair though, because if you look, what does he keep saying? It's like you have heard that it is said, you have heard that it is said. Like he keeps referencing back to the law and the tradition. Yeah, you know, so I don't think I'm reaching to say the law says this, but in your interpersonal relationships, do it a different way. Right. So he has a laughter sign and goes, hundred percent. So, yeah, but I think I'm being fair though. I think the fact that he's constantly calling back to what the legal expectations are, what man's expectations are, and then juxtaposing that with like the spiritual, I think that's a fair interpretation. I think that's a fair read. What do you think? Well, specifically, do you think the pattern is valid? Or am I is there something different about this verse that would separate it from the other clauses?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

No, I I think you're right. Okay. Um what's a clause again? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Okay, well, it's like a sentence pieces. So, you know, this is not a full sentence here, right? So you've got ye have heard that it has been said, comma, and then it's quoting what has been said, and that is the first part of the clause. You have heard that it is said, it's like an if-then state statement, like not exactly, but in structure, it's similar. So ye have heard that it has been said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. So that's the first part. That first part of the sentence, you might think of it as like uh the subject or whatever, and that's not exactly right, but I'm trying to be simplistic. Uh yeah, so you've got your first like if section of the subject, uh, the conditional section. I guess would know this stuff. Uh, she's the English major. I am not. I just write a lot. Yeah, it's a grammar thing. And uh, but I say unto you is the second clause, right? So you've got your first clause, you've heard that it is said, an eye for an eye, and two for a tooth. Second clause, but I say unto you, and then he quotes what he's gonna say. So you see the parallel structure of the whole sentence.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

So that's why they they separated them into verses.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

The verses are just as far as I can tell, they just seem to be arbitrary. Like if it were me, you know, not that I have any power, but I would actually make all this one verse because it's all one thought. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

So, like the the sentence you might think of it as like all one thought. And there's like, if this then that is all one collective thought. You know what I mean? Okay. So I would have made this one verse, but they didn't. They broke it into two verses. I don't know why. I I know there's a whole history behind it, but I'm completely unfamiliar with it. So, yeah. Any other thoughts before we move on?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Ouch thinking.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Ouch thinking. I enjoy this. I enjoy going slow. You have to go slow because you can gloss over it, you know, and then it doesn't mean anything.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

That's always been my problem before. Is this you just skim over everything? And it's like, oh, I've read the Bible, yeah, many times. But it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

It's because you didn't slow down and yeah, this is like this is uh reader's comprehension, sadly, and people don't know how to do this anymore, which is kind of why I'm doing this, even though YouTube is like murdering us for it.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Plus so plus you you have a lot of people will just read it as uh like a history book.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

And it it's not just a history book. You if you don't believe in any of it, it's not gonna make any sense.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah. Yeah, I think you gotta kind of lost you there for a second, but I think I understand what you're saying. So you gotta slow down is the point. So all right, let's move on, see if we can figure out some more stuff. Hopefully, I didn't talk ourselves up too much, and then we get completely baffled by another verse. That would be embarrassing. So, alright, here we go. 40. Uh, and if any man will sue thee at the law and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. All right, and then so this is uh kind of the same type of thing. So you might say that this makes a stronger case for pacifism if you're in favor of pacifism. Take away the coat, let him have thy cloak also. I would argue this is saying more like, you know, pick your fights, don't bicker over like small stuff type of deal. You know what I mean? If somebody's like accusing you of a wrong when it doesn't matter, you know, go ahead and whatever, just take it. It's not worth fighting.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

You know, it's like my hat here. Yeah, um Dragon Ball Z, you know, the owners of it were like, that's our hat. We're gonna sue you for it. Okay, well, I've got a we've got a shirt as well you can have back. Yeah. Kind of that context.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah, I think it's kind of a pick your battles type of deal. And be amiable as much as you can, which is what all this is. It's like letting letting go of uh small slights. Like we're not talking about if someone kills your child, give him your give him the child's sibling also. You know, we're not taking it that far, you know what I mean? No, so yeah, it's like let small stuff go, that kind of thing. And whosoever shall compare compel thee to go a mile, go with him too. So someone, so this is uh from what I understand, the Romans would make people do this. That's what I've always heard.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Really?

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I don't know if it's true, but that's what I've always heard. I've always heard that uh the Roman soldiers would actually make people march and carry their pack for a mile, something they were legally allowed to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

And uh, you mean like soldiers would make regular Joe blows on the street, carry their stuff? Yeah, I've heard that as well. Yeah, but I don't know if that's true or not. But yeah, I have heard that.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

I think this is one of those things where it's like say you have a boss that is bullying you, you know what I mean, telling you to he's he's piling work on or whatever, you know. Uh you do the work that he asks and then you do extra. And according to some people, of course, I don't I'm too much of a cynic for this, but according to some people, if you do that, then you know, like say hypothetically the boss above him sees it and rewards you and kicks him to the curb. I've heard that's the theory behind it. I'll be honest, that has not been my experience. Usually when I do that, I end up just having to do more.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah, well, in my experience, I think more. I I've I've done that and wound up burning myself out because then the boss just expects that much work from me all the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, that becomes the new norm.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

And then when raise time comes around, you don't actually get any more than if you just stuck to what you were doing.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of been my experience. I think the point though is God is watching, and so him seeing you go above and beyond. Yeah, that matters to him.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

You he will lay up your treasures in heaven for what he sees in your heart or something like that. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Well, be it's like long suffering, you know what I mean? It's like another way to apply this verse might be say you're a wife and you've got a particularly obnoxious husband, but you still fix him, you know, you still do stuff for him, fix him dinner, whatever. Anyway, make him break, you know, you put up with this gutter sniping. Like God will reward that long suffering in the long, you're like if in in heaven, if not in life, you know what I mean? Because you're not doing it for people, you're doing it for him.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

In some way, that's the part of the prosperity gospel.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

No, I think the prosperity gospel is like tithe, and of course I could be wrong. It's like tithe and be happy about it, and one day you'll be rich. And I think we're supposed to do the right thing regardless of whether or not we get a right result, which is like the whole weakness behind that. I got you. And I think that's what this is saying, too. It's not that you're gonna get rewarded for going above and beyond. You probably won't, but if you're willing to endure, you know, somebody bullying you or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Which most of us are not.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah. And that's kind of yeah, that's kind of the theme with all of this, is it's like, yeah, the law says that you know, people need to get even for crimes, but in your daily life, we're supposed to suffer these things and with patience and a good attitude, as it were. That's not an appeal to pacifism, because obviously you're not gonna, you know, give the serial killer your other child when he kills your first one. But, you know, if it's a cloak, then yes, you would give the guy your cloak. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

So is that a fair am I am I straw manning the pacifist position? Or am I being unfair? I don't want to be unfair.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I'm not sure. Because on one hand, I agree with you. But also I have stopped fights. And I've stopped them from starting the fight by just getting in the middle and being the pacifist in the middle. And it's like, okay. Did these guys stop out of fear or out of respect? Because they don't want to hit me. And and the times that I can think that I did that, uh they just didn't want to hurt me.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

But if someone was gonna kill you, you'd defend yourself, right? And you're not just gonna you're not just gonna let yourself be killed.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, or like if if someone was gonna try and take advantage of my kids or my wife, I would step in.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

And yeah, I think I think something about it.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Right. And I I think the problem with it is it's too reductive. Like, it ignores that's why I use that turn the other cheek when you're struck you're a Christian, but when you turn the other cheek with your neighbor's struck, you're a coward. What I'm trying to say with that is that you have competing obligations. You know what I mean? Like the obligations you have for your self-respect are different from the obligations you would have for your kid, you have to your kids, the obligations you have to your community, the obligations you have to your spouse, and so on. You have different obligations when it comes to the different relationships in your life. And yeah, you need to defend your kids. You know, like you if violence, if necessary, you need to defend your kids. And so, like, the nature of the relationship might change how you react. Now, it's not saying that here, but that would be you know, I think what this is talking about this is the uh spiritual and the inner man, and it's describing the kind of relationship you need to have with regards to yourself. But I think people take this and then move it beyond it's like the theory of evolution. It's like, yes, microevolution is true, species adapt, but it doesn't follow that everything came from a single cell. You know, it's the same kind of deal. It's like, yes, when people are attacking us, we should be peaceful. But it doesn't follow that we should let somebody kill us and kill our children. You know what I mean? It's like we we have a habit of taking things way too far. And I think that's what pacifism does, but that would be my argument.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah, it's just like uh the whole Roblox Roblox thing, you know. I I don't let my kids play Roblox because I feel it's protecting and that was a loud bang. You alright? Uh sounded like a grenade just went off outside.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Do you need to go check, or is it like storming out there or something?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

It may have been a firework. Is today a special day?

SPEAKER_02 39:59

No, I can hold the fort if you need to check.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

No, it's alright.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Okay.

unknown 40:05

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

I didn't see any flashing or anything.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Close enough for me to see what happened.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Yeah. We're almost done. We're almost done. I'm trying to decide. Yeah, we're we're on 41.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Let's just finish reading and then we'll talk more.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Okay, because we've been, I guess we need to, because we've been on Matthew 5 for like three weeks. So okay, let's see. So this is 41. 42. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee, turn thou, turn not thou away. So be generous. I think that's generosity. What do you think? I don't I'm trying to see if there's some other angle that we need to explore with that.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

No, it's the same.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

So you should be generous with people.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Just be generous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Okay. Moving on to 43. Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But uh but I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you. So, yes, we can't give in to bitterness. We can't do things because we're angry. Um, we need to love people and we need to bless people, and we need to be kind. Even if they don't reciprocate. Again, it goes back to doing the right thing, even though you're not necessarily expecting the right result, which is the problem with the prosperity gospel, as we mentioned before. The whole issue is you need to give, so God will give to you. He may, he may not, but you need to do the right thing in either case. So it's that kind of deal. So we love even though we don't get anything out of it. Because that's what God does for us. We're a bunch of degenerates, but God loves us anyway.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

It's unconditional.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah, it's unconditional, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Right. And we need to try and be unconditional ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah, we need to try to love unconditionally.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

So, okay. Which I'm very good at. Unconditionally.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Well, I'm not. I try. I hope I am. I don't know. I I'm scared to say that I am, because then I would obviously be a proud skunk. So I'm like, I don't know if I wanna I don't know if I want to give myself that kind of credit.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

So sometimes I feel like I'm I'm too good at it. Cause I uh you know, you you talk about the the pacifism and and I I I just sit there and just say nothing a lot of the time. And it does come back to bite me a lot.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Well, I I think um this is not necessarily tied to this. Well, it might be. I'm not sure. I'd have to we'll see here in a minute, but uh we can be kind without being weak. And that's something that people have to learn is you know, you don't have to just you can defend yourself, you know, you can stand up for what's right. It's just it's the spirit of the thing. It's you're not trying to get even, you're not trying to get what's yours, you're trying to prevent future harm. You've got to be able to be passive when it comes to yourself, but you've also got to be assertive enough to prevent future harm. That would be the way I would put it. I might be I might be speaking too both. Oddly, though. I don't know if I'm I think I could make that case if other portions of the Bible. I don't know if I could make that case with five. I'm not sure. I don't think I could. But I think that's principally what we're supposed to do. And again, yeah, you kind of have to balance do unto others with turn the other cheek. So are we ready to move on, or you got any other thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Move on.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

45, I think.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

That ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven, for he maketh his son to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and unjust. So that's actually that's actually part of the same clause. So let me read that whole thing. Uh so we're starting back up at 44. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which disdainful this which despitefully use you and persecute you, that ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven. For he maketh his son to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Right, so okay, so this is because yeah, God loves, yeah, like I think that's actually affirming what we were saying earlier, perhaps, because like God loves everybody equally to the maximal degree. You know, he loves us, he loves them. So because God loves all his creation, we need to treat other people with the love of God. Right. Make sense?

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Not easy.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

No, no, not easy at all. Not easy at all. All right, let's see. 46. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same. Do not even the publicans the same. So yeah, there's nothing special in loving people that are nice to you. So don't expect any rewards in heaven if you're just gonna do the bare minimum. I think so. 47, and if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Okay, I'm gonna say this is the same thought, but it's just another example reiterating the point. The 48, be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect. Now this is a hard one. Because obviously we can't.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

That's why Jesus is there.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah, I think. I think the whole point of this sermon is, or you know, at least this section, is you can't fulfill the criterion of God. God is measuring things on a level you can't even fully understand. Like, you know, if if anger is the same as murder in the eyes of God, or anger without a cause, is the same as murder in the eyes of God, then how can any of us be perfect? Obviously, we can't. And this is why we need Christ, because he died and paid for our sins, because we're all sinners. He's Christ is um making the criterion more stringent to demonstrate the fact that nobody can fulfill the law. Right. So I think that's what 48 is emphasizing. In order to be, yeah, in order to get into heaven, you'd have to be perfect, but obviously nobody can be perfect. So we need a savior.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

So that's Jesus is that savior.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Yeah. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Faith Fiction and Folklore. If you did, we would love it if you would subscribe to us on YouTube or follow us on Rumble. We can also be found on X, Instagram, and Facebook. And we are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio. Thank you again very much for listening, and we'll see you next time.